[Bell of Lost Souls] It’s Canon: Baldur’s Gate 3 Brings D&D To The Vatican

[Kyonshi]

Source:
https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2024/11/its-canon-baldurs-gate-3-brings-dd-to-the-vatican.html

According to Larian Studios’ Director of Publishing, Baldur’s Gate 3 has
sold 2 copies in The Vatican with one Wishlist on the way.

In what is surely a gaming first, Larian Studios’ Director of Publishing
announced on Twitter that Baldur’s Gate 3 had sold two copies in The
Vatican, with a third on the “wishlist.”

That’s right. The Vatican. Does this mean the Pope is about to get in
there and play a Paladin? Or do you think he’d play the Dark Urge?
Either way, I hope Larian can track down what paths he takes – because I
can’t think of a better way to determine the, ahem, canonical ending
than that.

Baldur’s Gate 3 In The Vatican

First up, here’s the official announcement:

Sold 2 copies of Baldur’s Gate 3 in The Vatican, with 1 wishlist.
I’d like too think the latter is just the Pope waiting until he has a
free minute. Wish I could see their mod list. Bet it’s absolutely gnarly.
via Twitter

Sold 2 copies of Baldur's Gate 3 in The Vatican, with 1 wishlist.
I'd like to think the latter is just the Pope waiting until he has a
free minute. Wish I could see their mod list. Bet it's absolutely gnarly.
— Very AFK (@Cromwelp) November 11, 2024

Now, what’s interesting is that this isn’t the first time The Vatican
has been connected to gaming in recent months. Because earlier this
year, the Catholic Church was on track to beatify a gamer as the first
Millennial Saint. No, really.

So, I can only imagine that this means that someone has set up a PC
gaming rig. The question is, who? Is it actually the Pope? Is it one of
the Papal Guard? Or one of the relatively few people who actually live
there? While we don’t know for certain, and it would be a violation of
all sorts of privacy laws to try and find out, the theological
implications could be huge!

At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.

Okay, but do you think it’s the Pope?

[Kyonshi]

Source: https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2024/11/its-canon-baldurs-
gate-3-brings-dd-to-the-vatican.html
According to Larian Studios’ Director of Publishing, Baldur’s Gate 3 has
sold 2 copies in The Vatican with one Wishlist on the way.
In what is surely a gaming first, Larian Studios’ Director of Publishing
announced on Twitter that Baldur’s Gate 3 had sold two copies in The
Vatican, with a third on the “wishlist.”
That’s right. The Vatican. Does this mean the Pope is about to get in
there and play a Paladin? Or do you think he’d play the Dark Urge?
Either way, I hope Larian can track down what paths he takes – because I
can’t think of a better way to determine the, ahem, canonical ending
than that.
Baldur’s Gate 3 In The Vatican
    Sold 2 copies of Baldur’s Gate 3 in The Vatican, with 1 wishlist.
I’d like too think the latter is just the Pope waiting until he has a
free minute. Wish I could see their mod list. Bet it’s absolutely gnarly.
    via Twitter
    Sold 2 copies of Baldur's Gate 3 in The Vatican, with 1 wishlist.
I'd like to think the latter is just the Pope waiting until he has a
free minute. Wish I could see their mod list. Bet it's absolutely gnarly.
Now, what’s interesting is that this isn’t the first time The Vatican
has been connected to gaming in recent months. Because earlier this
year, the Catholic Church was on track to beatify a gamer as the first
Millennial Saint. No, really.
So, I can only imagine that this means that someone has set up a PC
gaming rig. The question is, who? Is it actually the Pope? Is it one of
the Papal Guard? Or one of the relatively few people who actually live
there? While we don’t know for certain, and it would be a violation of
all sorts of privacy laws to try and find out, the theological
implications could be huge!
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.
Okay, but do you think it’s the Pope?

dang, that was supposed to go to comp.sys.ibm.games.rpg

[Spalls Hurgenson]

Post by Kyonshi
dang, that was supposed to go to comp.sys.ibm.games.rpg

Why, don't you WANT people to read your posts? ;-)



There's not any real reason to split posts across newsgroups. The
audience really isn't large enough. Then again, I was opposed to the
dividing of comp.sys.ibm.games back in '92, so I've got a bit of a
bias against the idea anyway ;-)

[candycanearter07]

Post by Kyonshi

Source: https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2024/11/its-canon-baldurs-
gate-3-brings-dd-to-the-vatican.html
According to Larian Studios’ Director of Publishing, Baldur’s Gate 3 has
sold 2 copies in The Vatican with one Wishlist on the way.
In what is surely a gaming first, Larian Studios’ Director of Publishing
announced on Twitter that Baldur’s Gate 3 had sold two copies in The
Vatican, with a third on the “wishlist.”
That’s right. The Vatican. Does this mean the Pope is about to get in
there and play a Paladin? Or do you think he’d play the Dark Urge?
Either way, I hope Larian can track down what paths he takes – because I
can’t think of a better way to determine the, ahem, canonical ending
than that.
Baldur’s Gate 3 In The Vatican
    Sold 2 copies of Baldur’s Gate 3 in The Vatican, with 1 wishlist.
I’d like too think the latter is just the Pope waiting until he has a
free minute. Wish I could see their mod list. Bet it’s absolutely gnarly.
    via Twitter
    Sold 2 copies of Baldur's Gate 3 in The Vatican, with 1 wishlist.
I'd like to think the latter is just the Pope waiting until he has a
free minute. Wish I could see their mod list. Bet it's absolutely gnarly.
Now, what’s interesting is that this isn’t the first time The Vatican
has been connected to gaming in recent months. Because earlier this
year, the Catholic Church was on track to beatify a gamer as the first
Millennial Saint. No, really.
So, I can only imagine that this means that someone has set up a PC
gaming rig. The question is, who? Is it actually the Pope? Is it one of
the Papal Guard? Or one of the relatively few people who actually live
there? While we don’t know for certain, and it would be a violation of
all sorts of privacy laws to try and find out, the theological
implications could be huge!
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.
Okay, but do you think it’s the Pope?

dang, that was supposed to go to comp.sys.ibm.games.rpg

I don't think it matters too much nowadays considering the amount of
traffic we get.

[Spalls Hurgenson]

On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 19:40:04 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07

Post by candycanearter07

Post by Kyonshi
dang, that was supposed to go to comp.sys.ibm.games.rpg

I don't think it matters too much nowadays considering the amount of
traffic we get.

And yet...

CSIPGA's current traffic is practically double what we had five years
ago. Which says something about the lows this newsgroup reached at one
point. Why, it's practically BUSTLING in here now!

(That said, the total number of active users may have declined. We've
got fewer people saying more. I'm not sure if that's actually an
improvement or not)


How do I know? I've got a spreadsheet of course!

Once upon a time, there was a website which kept stats on various
newsgroups, and one of the things it showed was the average number of
posts and total active users for a month. Unfortunately, the website
didn't last very long* but while it stayed up I kept track of
c.s.i.p.g.a's records. So in February 2019, the monthly average was 6
posts per day, with 15 unique users posting. I don't know what the
numbers are nowadays, but it seems we're doing close to 10 to 12
messages per day now; maybe more.

Personally, I point the finger at candycane; they're a prolific
poster. ;-)


* only a matter of months, in fact, so my spreadsheet is _very_ short
;-)

[candycanearter07]

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 19:40:04 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07

Post by candycanearter07

Post by Kyonshi
dang, that was supposed to go to comp.sys.ibm.games.rpg

I don't think it matters too much nowadays considering the amount of
traffic we get.

And yet...
CSIPGA's current traffic is practically double what we had five years
ago. Which says something about the lows this newsgroup reached at one
point. Why, it's practically BUSTLING in here now!
(That said, the total number of active users may have declined. We've
got fewer people saying more. I'm not sure if that's actually an
improvement or not)

More of a tight knit community :D

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
How do I know? I've got a spreadsheet of course!
Once upon a time, there was a website which kept stats on various
newsgroups, and one of the things it showed was the average number of
posts and total active users for a month. Unfortunately, the website
didn't last very long* but while it stayed up I kept track of
c.s.i.p.g.a's records. So in February 2019, the monthly average was 6
posts per day, with 15 unique users posting. I don't know what the
numbers are nowadays, but it seems we're doing close to 10 to 12
messages per day now; maybe more.
Personally, I point the finger at candycane; they're a prolific
poster. ;-)

Ah, I only post occasionally ^^"
If you really want a case of me inflating the activity, look at
rec.arts.comics.creative

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
* only a matter of months, in fact, so my spreadsheet is _very_ short
;-)

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 19:40:04 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07

Post by candycanearter07

Post by Kyonshi
dang, that was supposed to go to comp.sys.ibm.games.rpg

I don't think it matters too much nowadays considering the amount of
traffic we get.

And yet...
CSIPGA's current traffic is practically double what we had five years
ago. Which says something about the lows this newsgroup reached at one
point. Why, it's practically BUSTLING in here now!
(That said, the total number of active users may have declined. We've
got fewer people saying more. I'm not sure if that's actually an
improvement or not)

.... That sounds vaguely insulting.

[Mike S.]

On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 22:24:37 -0800, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
(That said, the total number of active users may have declined. We've
got fewer people saying more. I'm not sure if that's actually an
improvement or not)

.... That sounds vaguely insulting.

LOL!

I didn't see his post that way until I read yours and then I realized
you are right.

[Spalls Hurgenson]

Post by Mike S.
On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 22:24:37 -0800, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
(That said, the total number of active users may have declined. We've
got fewer people saying more. I'm not sure if that's actually an
improvement or not)

.... That sounds vaguely insulting.

LOL!
I didn't see his post that way until I read yours and then I realized
you are right.

<chuckle>

Obviously it wasn't meant as an insult. But having fewer active
posters --even if they write more-- means that if even one of those
people leaves, the impact is more severe. More posters is a better
sign of long-term health for a forum. Especially since usenet is such
a forgotten medium that we're not gaining new users at the same rate
as we lose them. So I'd much rather have forty active users who post
once a day than ten who post four times a day.

I mean, sure, given my druthers I'd prefer forty active users who post
four times a day, but I'm not going to be greedy ;-)

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
but I'm not going to be greedy ;-)

Isn't that heretical in the Church of The Number?

[Spalls Hurgenson]

On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 18:23:33 -0800, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
but I'm not going to be greedy ;-)

Isn't that heretical in the Church of The Number?

The Number is only interested in the size of your video game library.
We aren't after making EVERY number incredibly large. That would be
silly ;-)

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 18:23:33 -0800, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
but I'm not going to be greedy ;-)

Isn't that heretical in the Church of The Number?

The Number is only interested in the size of your video game library.
We aren't after making EVERY number incredibly large. That would be
silly ;-)

Ah, so I was thinking of the MAGA splinter of The Church of The Number. :P

[Xocyll]

Dimensional Traveler <***@sonic.net> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 18:23:33 -0800, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
but I'm not going to be greedy ;-)

Isn't that heretical in the Church of The Number?

The Number is only interested in the size of your video game library.
We aren't after making EVERY number incredibly large. That would be
silly ;-)

Ah, so I was thinking of the MAGA splinter of The Church of The Number. :P

Make Adventure Games Again?

Xocyll

[Spalls Hurgenson]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 17:49:28 -0800, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 18:23:33 -0800, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
but I'm not going to be greedy ;-)

Isn't that heretical in the Church of The Number?

The Number is only interested in the size of your video game library.
We aren't after making EVERY number incredibly large. That would be
silly ;-)

Ah, so I was thinking of the MAGA splinter of The Church of The Number. :P

<cough splurt laugh>
You owe me a new keyboard.

[candycanearter07]

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 17:49:28 -0800, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 18:23:33 -0800, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
but I'm not going to be greedy ;-)

Isn't that heretical in the Church of The Number?

The Number is only interested in the size of your video game library.
We aren't after making EVERY number incredibly large. That would be
silly ;-)

Ah, so I was thinking of the MAGA splinter of The Church of The Number. :P

<cough splurt laugh>
You owe me a new keyboard.

Threw it right out the window, did you?

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by candycanearter07

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 17:49:28 -0800, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 18:23:33 -0800, Dimensional Traveler

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
but I'm not going to be greedy ;-)

Isn't that heretical in the Church of The Number?

The Number is only interested in the size of your video game library.
We aren't after making EVERY number incredibly large. That would be
silly ;-)

Ah, so I was thinking of the MAGA splinter of The Church of The Number. :P

<cough splurt laugh>
You owe me a new keyboard.

Threw it right out the window, did you?

Well wouldn't you if you had just splurted on it?

[Kyonshi]

Post by candycanearter07
I don't think it matters too much nowadays considering the amount of
traffic we get.

eh, i just was thinking it was a bit too off topic for .action, but
barely on topic for .rpg

[JAB]

Post by Kyonshi
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.

There's still a bit of it going around so I have heard a story about
someone who wanted to play a cleric in D&D but insisted that it could
only conform to the Christian version of god - maybe they wanted their
spells to randomly work or even work in mysterious ways!

Of course they also insisted this applied to the whole world, so no
other gods allowed.

[Kyonshi]

Post by JAB

Post by Kyonshi
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.

There's still a bit of it going around so I have heard a story about
someone who wanted to play a cleric in D&D but insisted that it could
only conform to the Christian version of god - maybe they wanted their
spells to randomly work or even work in mysterious ways!
Of course they also insisted this applied to the whole world, so no
other gods allowed.

When I still cared about these things I always found that using other
gods was easier on my mind than using the Christian one. Because that
was clearly fantasy or myth, while I believed in the actual Christian
god. It felt uncomfortable to mix God (the capital G one) with other gods.
It came as a surprise to me that especially American players sometimes
seemed so intent on having it exactly the other way around.

[JAB]

Post by Kyonshi

Post by JAB

Post by Kyonshi
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.

There's still a bit of it going around so I have heard a story about
someone who wanted to play a cleric in D&D but insisted that it could
only conform to the Christian version of god - maybe they wanted their
spells to randomly work or even work in mysterious ways!
Of course they also insisted this applied to the whole world, so no
other gods allowed.

When I still cared about these things I always found that using other
gods was easier on my mind than using the Christian one. Because that
was clearly fantasy or myth, while I believed in the actual Christian
god. It felt uncomfortable to mix God (the capital G one) with other gods.
It came as a surprise to me that especially American players sometimes
seemed so intent on having it exactly the other way around.

The whole demonic involvement and D&D kinda passed the UK over
thankfully. Then again even then religion wasn't really a big thing in
the UK even then.

Then again we did have Mary Whitehouse who made up for it all on her own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Whitehouse

[Spalls Hurgenson]

Post by JAB

Post by Kyonshi
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.

There's still a bit of it going around so I have heard a story about
someone who wanted to play a cleric in D&D but insisted that it could
only conform to the Christian version of god - maybe they wanted their
spells to randomly work or even work in mysterious ways!
Of course they also insisted this applied to the whole world, so no
other gods allowed.

D&D actually had several official campaign settings (albeit small
ones) focused on a world where the Christian god was dominant in its
Historical Reference series (specifically, "HR2 Charlemangne's
Paladins" and "HR7 The Crusaders"). They didn't outlaw other
mythologies outright but did try to balance the game to a world where
clerical magic was much more limited.

We never played in any of those campaigns ourself, but I used some of
the information therein to aid in the development of my own
adventures, since I generally ran campaigns where magic was much less
common than in typical D&D worlds. When every town doesn't have a slew
of priests to ressurrect you (or even cure poison!) you've got to
offer different ways for players to recuperate from their
misadventures.

(although a lot of time, that 'way' was just 'rest up for three
months' until that wound you got by being stabbed in the gut heals)

[Ross Ridge]

Post by Kyonshi
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.

I'm sure D&D was played in some form in the precincts of the Vatican
long before Baldur's Gate 3 was released. Maybe even during the time
when the Satanic Panic thing was raging in the US and to a lesser extent
the rest of the English speaking world, but not so much in Italy.

[Justisaur]

Post by Ross Ridge

Post by Kyonshi
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.

I'm sure D&D was played in some form in the precincts of the Vatican
long before Baldur's Gate 3 was released. Maybe even during the time
when the Satanic Panic thing was raging in the US and to a lesser extent
the rest of the English speaking world, but not so much in Italy.

I don't know that it was Catholics going after D&D. BADD was
popularized by evangelicals - specifically the TV kind. Jack Chick was
was some very weird offshoot of Baptist.

[Kyonshi]

Post by Ross Ridge

Post by Kyonshi
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.

I'm sure D&D was played in some form in the precincts of the Vatican
long before Baldur's Gate 3 was released.  Maybe even during the time
when the Satanic Panic thing was raging in the US and to a lesser extent
the rest of the English speaking world, but not so much in Italy.

I don't know that it was Catholics going after D&D.  BADD was
popularized by evangelicals - specifically the TV kind.  Jack Chick was
was some very weird offshoot of Baptist.

And I think D&D was too niche back then to even touch some area like
that (which is after all just the size of a small town, even in the
middle of a metropolis), especially as a lot of inhabitants of the
Vatican city are elder professionals.

One would have to look up when DnD was released in Italian maybe.

[Zaghadka]

Top post. First off, please knock it off with the non ANSI characters.

I've never had so much trouble posting a reply.

On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 09:32:27 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,

Post by Kyonshi

Post by Ross Ridge

Post by Kyonshi
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.

I'm sure D&D was played in some form in the precincts of the Vatican
long before Baldur's Gate 3 was released.  Maybe even during the time
when the Satanic Panic thing was raging in the US and to a lesser extent
the rest of the English speaking world, but not so much in Italy.

I don't know that it was Catholics going after D&D.  BADD was
popularized by evangelicals - specifically the TV kind.  Jack Chick was
was some very weird offshoot of Baptist.

And I think D&D was too niche back then to even touch some area like
that (which is after all just the size of a small town, even in the
middle of a metropolis), especially as a lot of inhabitants of the
Vatican city are elder professionals.
One would have to look up when DnD was released in Italian maybe.

All I know, and excuse me if I'm repeating this story for the 19th time,
is that my Irish Catholic grandmother bought me a first print 1e *Deities
& Demigods* for freaking Easter. I asked for it, and she was all "Yup."
So no, I don't think her priest was railing against Satan in D&D.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Zaghadka
Top post. First off, please knock it off with the non ANSI characters.
I've never had so much trouble posting a reply.
On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 09:32:27 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,

Post by Kyonshi

Post by Ross Ridge

Post by Kyonshi
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.

I'm sure D&D was played in some form in the precincts of the Vatican
long before Baldur's Gate 3 was released.  Maybe even during the time
when the Satanic Panic thing was raging in the US and to a lesser extent
the rest of the English speaking world, but not so much in Italy.

I don't know that it was Catholics going after D&D.  BADD was
popularized by evangelicals - specifically the TV kind.  Jack Chick was
was some very weird offshoot of Baptist.

And I think D&D was too niche back then to even touch some area like
that (which is after all just the size of a small town, even in the
middle of a metropolis), especially as a lot of inhabitants of the
Vatican city are elder professionals.
One would have to look up when DnD was released in Italian maybe.

All I know, and excuse me if I'm repeating this story for the 19th time,
is that my Irish Catholic grandmother bought me a first print 1e *Deities
& Demigods* for freaking Easter. I asked for it, and she was all "Yup."
So no, I don't think her priest was railing against Satan in D&D.

I'm pretty sure it was an American phoneme.

[Zaghadka]

On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 17:50:34 -0800, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Zaghadka
Top post. First off, please knock it off with the non ANSI characters.
I've never had so much trouble posting a reply.
On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 09:32:27 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,

Post by Kyonshi

Post by Ross Ridge

Post by Kyonshi
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.

I'm sure D&D was played in some form in the precincts of the Vatican
long before Baldur's Gate 3 was released.  Maybe even during the time
when the Satanic Panic thing was raging in the US and to a lesser extent
the rest of the English speaking world, but not so much in Italy.

I don't know that it was Catholics going after D&D.  BADD was
popularized by evangelicals - specifically the TV kind.  Jack Chick was
was some very weird offshoot of Baptist.

And I think D&D was too niche back then to even touch some area like
that (which is after all just the size of a small town, even in the
middle of a metropolis), especially as a lot of inhabitants of the
Vatican city are elder professionals.
One would have to look up when DnD was released in Italian maybe.

All I know, and excuse me if I'm repeating this story for the 19th time,
is that my Irish Catholic grandmother bought me a first print 1e *Deities
& Demigods* for freaking Easter. I asked for it, and she was all "Yup."
So no, I don't think her priest was railing against Satan in D&D.

I'm pretty sure it was an American phoneme.

LOL. No, ethnically Irish. At the time we had Irish and Italian Catholics
in America. She was definitely an American.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Zaghadka
On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 17:50:34 -0800, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Zaghadka
Top post. First off, please knock it off with the non ANSI characters.
I've never had so much trouble posting a reply.
On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 09:32:27 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,

Post by Kyonshi

Post by Ross Ridge

Post by Kyonshi
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.

I'm sure D&D was played in some form in the precincts of the Vatican
long before Baldur's Gate 3 was released.  Maybe even during the time
when the Satanic Panic thing was raging in the US and to a lesser extent
the rest of the English speaking world, but not so much in Italy.

I don't know that it was Catholics going after D&D.  BADD was
popularized by evangelicals - specifically the TV kind.  Jack Chick was
was some very weird offshoot of Baptist.

And I think D&D was too niche back then to even touch some area like
that (which is after all just the size of a small town, even in the
middle of a metropolis), especially as a lot of inhabitants of the
Vatican city are elder professionals.
One would have to look up when DnD was released in Italian maybe.

All I know, and excuse me if I'm repeating this story for the 19th time,
is that my Irish Catholic grandmother bought me a first print 1e *Deities
& Demigods* for freaking Easter. I asked for it, and she was all "Yup."
So no, I don't think her priest was railing against Satan in D&D.

I'm pretty sure it was an American phoneme.

LOL. No, ethnically Irish. At the time we had Irish and Italian Catholics
in America. She was definitely an American.

I meant the whole "D&D is a satanic cult" thing was American, not that
playing D&D was only American.

[candycanearter07]

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Zaghadka
On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 17:50:34 -0800, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Zaghadka
Top post. First off, please knock it off with the non ANSI characters.
I've never had so much trouble posting a reply.
On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 09:32:27 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,

Post by Kyonshi

Post by Ross Ridge

Post by Kyonshi
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.

I'm sure D&D was played in some form in the precincts of the Vatican
long before Baldur's Gate 3 was released.  Maybe even during the time
when the Satanic Panic thing was raging in the US and to a lesser extent
the rest of the English speaking world, but not so much in Italy.

I don't know that it was Catholics going after D&D.  BADD was
popularized by evangelicals - specifically the TV kind.  Jack Chick was
was some very weird offshoot of Baptist.

And I think D&D was too niche back then to even touch some area like
that (which is after all just the size of a small town, even in the
middle of a metropolis), especially as a lot of inhabitants of the
Vatican city are elder professionals.
One would have to look up when DnD was released in Italian maybe.

All I know, and excuse me if I'm repeating this story for the 19th time,
is that my Irish Catholic grandmother bought me a first print 1e *Deities
& Demigods* for freaking Easter. I asked for it, and she was all "Yup."
So no, I don't think her priest was railing against Satan in D&D.

I'm pretty sure it was an American phoneme.

LOL. No, ethnically Irish. At the time we had Irish and Italian Catholics
in America. She was definitely an American.

I meant the whole "D&D is a satanic cult" thing was American, not that
playing D&D was only American.

Probably, that tracks with how American christians are sometimes.

[Kyonshi]

Post by candycanearter07
Probably, that tracks with how American christians are sometimes.

There are few things as confusing as talking to an American Lutheran as
a European Lutheran.

[Zaghadka]

On Wed, 20 Nov 2024 18:03:54 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,

Post by Kyonshi

Post by candycanearter07
Probably, that tracks with how American christians are sometimes.

There are few things as confusing as talking to an American Lutheran as
a European Lutheran.

Hey, that's my vocation!

[Jhulian Waldby]

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Zaghadka
Top post. First off, please knock it off with the non ANSI characters.
I've never had so much trouble posting a reply.
On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 09:32:27 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,

Post by Kyonshi

Post by Ross Ridge

Post by Kyonshi
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.

I'm sure D&D was played in some form in the precincts of the Vatican
long before Baldur's Gate 3 was released.  Maybe even during the time
when the Satanic Panic thing was raging in the US and to a lesser extent
the rest of the English speaking world, but not so much in Italy.

I don't know that it was Catholics going after D&D.  BADD was
popularized by evangelicals - specifically the TV kind.  Jack Chick was
was some very weird offshoot of Baptist.

And I think D&D was too niche back then to even touch some area like
that (which is after all just the size of a small town, even in the
middle of a metropolis), especially as a lot of inhabitants of the
Vatican city are elder professionals.
One would have to look up when DnD was released in Italian maybe.

All I know, and excuse me if I'm repeating this story for the 19th time,
is that my Irish Catholic grandmother bought me a first print 1e *Deities
& Demigods* for freaking Easter. I asked for it, and she was all "Yup."
So no, I don't think her priest was railing against Satan in D&D.

I'm pretty sure it was an American phoneme.

I guess the concern is that players may become unable to differentiate
the truth from the water elemental. I've noticed this in some Dungeon
Masters who argue rules as if it were a physics laboratory. Not one
hint of "this is fiction" or "we can't find a rule for that."

Funny though, I haven't heard anyone mention Satanism in D&D for yrs.
That all stopped a week before I picked up Basic Dungeons & Dragons.

Who were those people? I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten.

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Jhulian Waldby

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Zaghadka
Top post. First off, please knock it off with the non ANSI characters.
I've never had so much trouble posting a reply.
On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 09:32:27 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,

Post by Kyonshi

Post by Ross Ridge

Post by Kyonshi
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.

I'm sure D&D was played in some form in the precincts of the Vatican
long before Baldur's Gate 3 was released.  Maybe even during the time
when the Satanic Panic thing was raging in the US and to a lesser extent
the rest of the English speaking world, but not so much in Italy.

I don't know that it was Catholics going after D&D.  BADD was
popularized by evangelicals - specifically the TV kind.  Jack Chick was
was some very weird offshoot of Baptist.

And I think D&D was too niche back then to even touch some area like
that (which is after all just the size of a small town, even in the
middle of a metropolis), especially as a lot of inhabitants of the
Vatican city are elder professionals.
One would have to look up when DnD was released in Italian maybe.

All I know, and excuse me if I'm repeating this story for the 19th time,
is that my Irish Catholic grandmother bought me a first print 1e *Deities
& Demigods* for freaking Easter. I asked for it, and she was all "Yup."
So no, I don't think her priest was railing against Satan in D&D.

I'm pretty sure it was an American phoneme.

I guess the concern is that players may become unable to differentiate
the truth from the water elemental.  I've noticed this in some Dungeon
Masters who argue rules as if it were a physics laboratory.  Not one
hint of "this is fiction" or "we can't find a rule for that."
Funny though, I haven't heard anyone mention Satanism in D&D for yrs.
That all stopped a week before I picked up Basic Dungeons & Dragons.
Who were those people?  I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten.

Something about some group of teenagers wandering around in the New York
subway tunnels comes to mind.

[Xocyll]

Dimensional Traveler <***@sonic.net> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Jhulian Waldby

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Zaghadka
Top post. First off, please knock it off with the non ANSI characters.
I've never had so much trouble posting a reply.
On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 09:32:27 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,

Post by Kyonshi

Post by Ross Ridge

Post by Kyonshi
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.

I'm sure D&D was played in some form in the precincts of the Vatican
long before Baldur's Gate 3 was released.  Maybe even during the time
when the Satanic Panic thing was raging in the US and to a lesser extent
the rest of the English speaking world, but not so much in Italy.

I don't know that it was Catholics going after D&D.  BADD was
popularized by evangelicals - specifically the TV kind.  Jack Chick was
was some very weird offshoot of Baptist.

And I think D&D was too niche back then to even touch some area like
that (which is after all just the size of a small town, even in the
middle of a metropolis), especially as a lot of inhabitants of the
Vatican city are elder professionals.
One would have to look up when DnD was released in Italian maybe.

All I know, and excuse me if I'm repeating this story for the 19th time,
is that my Irish Catholic grandmother bought me a first print 1e *Deities
& Demigods* for freaking Easter. I asked for it, and she was all "Yup."
So no, I don't think her priest was railing against Satan in D&D.

I'm pretty sure it was an American phoneme.

I guess the concern is that players may become unable to differentiate
the truth from the water elemental.  I've noticed this in some Dungeon
Masters who argue rules as if it were a physics laboratory.  Not one
hint of "this is fiction" or "we can't find a rule for that."
Funny though, I haven't heard anyone mention Satanism in D&D for yrs.
That all stopped a week before I picked up Basic Dungeons & Dragons.
Who were those people?  I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten.

Something about some group of teenagers wandering around in the New York
subway tunnels comes to mind.

That's Rona Jaffe's Mazes & Monsters.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084314/

The Satanism thing was Jack Chick;
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/oct/25/jack-chick-christian-comic-cartoonist-death

A snippet: "A lot of people hated Jack Chick. He wrote furious screeds
against Dungeons & Dragons, against Catholicism and against rock music;
he waged a long and ultimately unsuccessful war on Halloween. If you
were Jewish or Muslim or gay, Chick wanted you to be saved from the
fires of hell and wrote a comic to tell you so."

A collection of his lunacy;
https://www.chick.com/products/category?type=tracts

Specifically for D&D
https://www.chick.com/products/tract?stk=46&ue=d

Xocyll

[JAB]

Post by Xocyll
The Satanism thing was Jack Chick;
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/oct/25/jack-chick-christian-
comic-cartoonist-death
A snippet: "A lot of people hated Jack Chick. He wrote furious screeds
against Dungeons & Dragons, against Catholicism and against rock music;
he waged a long and ultimately unsuccessful war on Halloween. If you
were Jewish or Muslim or gay, Chick wanted you to be saved from the
fires of hell and wrote a comic to tell you so."

Sounds like a ideal person to get a job in the incoming US government!

[Kyonshi]

Post by JAB

Post by Xocyll
The Satanism thing was Jack Chick;
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/oct/25/jack-chick-christian-
comic-cartoonist-death
A snippet:  "A lot of people hated Jack Chick. He wrote furious screeds
against Dungeons & Dragons, against Catholicism and against rock music;
he waged a long and ultimately unsuccessful war on Halloween. If you
were Jewish or Muslim or gay, Chick wanted you to be saved from the
fires of hell and wrote a comic to tell you so."

Sounds like a ideal person to get a job in the incoming US government!

He's dead, so yeah. At least he can't do that much harm.

[Spalls Hurgenson]

Post by Xocyll
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Jhulian Waldby

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Zaghadka
Top post. First off, please knock it off with the non ANSI characters.
I've never had so much trouble posting a reply.
On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 09:32:27 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,

Post by Kyonshi

Post by Ross Ridge

Post by Kyonshi
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.

I'm sure D&D was played in some form in the precincts of the Vatican
long before Baldur's Gate 3 was released.  Maybe even during the time
when the Satanic Panic thing was raging in the US and to a lesser extent
the rest of the English speaking world, but not so much in Italy.

I don't know that it was Catholics going after D&D.  BADD was
popularized by evangelicals - specifically the TV kind.  Jack Chick was
was some very weird offshoot of Baptist.

And I think D&D was too niche back then to even touch some area like
that (which is after all just the size of a small town, even in the
middle of a metropolis), especially as a lot of inhabitants of the
Vatican city are elder professionals.
One would have to look up when DnD was released in Italian maybe.

All I know, and excuse me if I'm repeating this story for the 19th time,
is that my Irish Catholic grandmother bought me a first print 1e *Deities
& Demigods* for freaking Easter. I asked for it, and she was all "Yup."
So no, I don't think her priest was railing against Satan in D&D.

I'm pretty sure it was an American phoneme.

I guess the concern is that players may become unable to differentiate
the truth from the water elemental.  I've noticed this in some Dungeon
Masters who argue rules as if it were a physics laboratory.  Not one
hint of "this is fiction" or "we can't find a rule for that."
Funny though, I haven't heard anyone mention Satanism in D&D for yrs.
That all stopped a week before I picked up Basic Dungeons & Dragons.
Who were those people?  I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten.

Something about some group of teenagers wandering around in the New York
subway tunnels comes to mind.

That's Rona Jaffe's Mazes & Monsters.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084314/
The Satanism thing was Jack Chick;
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/oct/25/jack-chick-christian-comic-cartoonist-death
A snippet: "A lot of people hated Jack Chick. He wrote furious screeds
against Dungeons & Dragons, against Catholicism and against rock music;
he waged a long and ultimately unsuccessful war on Halloween. If you
were Jewish or Muslim or gay, Chick wanted you to be saved from the
fires of hell and wrote a comic to tell you so."
A collection of his lunacy;
https://www.chick.com/products/category?type=tracts
Specifically for D&D
https://www.chick.com/products/tract?stk=46&ue=d
Xocyll

I mean, it wasn't _only_ Jack Chick. The American 'Satanic Panic'
thing was fairly wide-spread even before D&D; believers pointed to
comic books, movies, rock'n'roll and all sorts of entertainment as
malefic influences on the youth. D&D was a sort of easy target because
one of its rulebooks featured a demonic idol on its cover. But of any
one person could be pointed to as the driving force for the 'D&D is a
tool of Satan", it's probably Patricia Pulling, nominal private
investigator, author of "The Devil's Web" and founder of BADD
('Bothered About Dungeons & Dragons', an anti-satanism campaign that
specifically targeted tabletop RPGs).

Chick was an end-times baptist nutjob who wrote a lot of corny and
logically-inconsistent morality plays in the form of comic strips
which reflected his very weird beliefs, of which 'Dark Dungeons' was
only one of many. As far as I can tell, it came out in the mid 80s,
some years after Pulling founded BADD and after the height of the
Satanic Panic frenzy.

[Xocyll]

Spalls Hurgenson <***@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs

Post by Spalls Hurgenson

Post by Xocyll
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Jhulian Waldby

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Zaghadka
Top post. First off, please knock it off with the non ANSI characters.
I've never had so much trouble posting a reply.
On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 09:32:27 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,

Post by Kyonshi

Post by Ross Ridge

Post by Kyonshi
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.

I'm sure D&D was played in some form in the precincts of the Vatican
long before Baldur's Gate 3 was released.  Maybe even during the time
when the Satanic Panic thing was raging in the US and to a lesser extent
the rest of the English speaking world, but not so much in Italy.

I don't know that it was Catholics going after D&D.  BADD was
popularized by evangelicals - specifically the TV kind.  Jack Chick was
was some very weird offshoot of Baptist.

And I think D&D was too niche back then to even touch some area like
that (which is after all just the size of a small town, even in the
middle of a metropolis), especially as a lot of inhabitants of the
Vatican city are elder professionals.
One would have to look up when DnD was released in Italian maybe.

All I know, and excuse me if I'm repeating this story for the 19th time,
is that my Irish Catholic grandmother bought me a first print 1e *Deities
& Demigods* for freaking Easter. I asked for it, and she was all "Yup."
So no, I don't think her priest was railing against Satan in D&D.

I'm pretty sure it was an American phoneme.

I guess the concern is that players may become unable to differentiate
the truth from the water elemental.  I've noticed this in some Dungeon
Masters who argue rules as if it were a physics laboratory.  Not one
hint of "this is fiction" or "we can't find a rule for that."
Funny though, I haven't heard anyone mention Satanism in D&D for yrs.
That all stopped a week before I picked up Basic Dungeons & Dragons.
Who were those people?  I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten.

Something about some group of teenagers wandering around in the New York
subway tunnels comes to mind.

That's Rona Jaffe's Mazes & Monsters.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084314/
The Satanism thing was Jack Chick;
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/oct/25/jack-chick-christian-comic-cartoonist-death
A snippet: "A lot of people hated Jack Chick. He wrote furious screeds
against Dungeons & Dragons, against Catholicism and against rock music;
he waged a long and ultimately unsuccessful war on Halloween. If you
were Jewish or Muslim or gay, Chick wanted you to be saved from the
fires of hell and wrote a comic to tell you so."
A collection of his lunacy;
https://www.chick.com/products/category?type=tracts
Specifically for D&D
https://www.chick.com/products/tract?stk=46&ue=d
Xocyll

I mean, it wasn't _only_ Jack Chick. The American 'Satanic Panic'
thing was fairly wide-spread even before D&D; believers pointed to
comic books, movies, rock'n'roll and all sorts of entertainment as
malefic influences on the youth. D&D was a sort of easy target because
one of its rulebooks featured a demonic idol on its cover. But of any
one person could be pointed to as the driving force for the 'D&D is a
tool of Satan", it's probably Patricia Pulling, nominal private
investigator, author of "The Devil's Web" and founder of BADD
('Bothered About Dungeons & Dragons', an anti-satanism campaign that
specifically targeted tabletop RPGs).
Chick was an end-times baptist nutjob who wrote a lot of corny and
logically-inconsistent morality plays in the form of comic strips
which reflected his very weird beliefs, of which 'Dark Dungeons' was
only one of many. As far as I can tell, it came out in the mid 80s,
some years after Pulling founded BADD and after the height of the
Satanic Panic frenzy.

Looks like the timeline is
1981: Publication of Mazes and Monsters book
1982: Mazes and Monsters CBS TV movie and suicide of Patricia
Pulling's son who was active in RPGs.
1983: formation of B.A.D.D because RPGs killed her son

Yeah she seems to be the 1980s version of Jack Thompson (who blamed GTA
for everything,) except she was a "consultant" not a lawyer, so she
didn't get disbarred.

1985: OZZY gets sued for Suicide Solution that another bunch of nutjobs
claimed caused their kid to kill himself in 1984.

Seems like a lot of "My kid killed himself and I need to blame someone
that isn't me" behavior.

Xocyll

[Zaghadka]

On Wed, 20 Nov 2024 13:29:15 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,

Post by Spalls Hurgenson

Post by Xocyll
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Jhulian Waldby

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Zaghadka
Top post. First off, please knock it off with the non ANSI characters.
I've never had so much trouble posting a reply.
On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 09:32:27 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,

Post by Kyonshi

Post by Ross Ridge

Post by Kyonshi
At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. Never
let anyone tell you who you are.

I'm sure D&D was played in some form in the precincts of the Vatican
long before Baldur's Gate 3 was released.  Maybe even during the time
when the Satanic Panic thing was raging in the US and to a lesser extent
the rest of the English speaking world, but not so much in Italy.

I don't know that it was Catholics going after D&D.  BADD was
popularized by evangelicals - specifically the TV kind.  Jack Chick was
was some very weird offshoot of Baptist.

And I think D&D was too niche back then to even touch some area like
that (which is after all just the size of a small town, even in the
middle of a metropolis), especially as a lot of inhabitants of the
Vatican city are elder professionals.
One would have to look up when DnD was released in Italian maybe.

All I know, and excuse me if I'm repeating this story for the 19th time,
is that my Irish Catholic grandmother bought me a first print 1e *Deities
& Demigods* for freaking Easter. I asked for it, and she was all "Yup."
So no, I don't think her priest was railing against Satan in D&D.

I'm pretty sure it was an American phoneme.

I guess the concern is that players may become unable to differentiate
the truth from the water elemental.  I've noticed this in some Dungeon
Masters who argue rules as if it were a physics laboratory.  Not one
hint of "this is fiction" or "we can't find a rule for that."
Funny though, I haven't heard anyone mention Satanism in D&D for yrs.
That all stopped a week before I picked up Basic Dungeons & Dragons.
Who were those people?  I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten.

Something about some group of teenagers wandering around in the New York
subway tunnels comes to mind.

That's Rona Jaffe's Mazes & Monsters.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084314/
The Satanism thing was Jack Chick;
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/oct/25/jack-chick-christian-comic-cartoonist-death
A snippet: "A lot of people hated Jack Chick. He wrote furious screeds
against Dungeons & Dragons, against Catholicism and against rock music;
he waged a long and ultimately unsuccessful war on Halloween. If you
were Jewish or Muslim or gay, Chick wanted you to be saved from the
fires of hell and wrote a comic to tell you so."
A collection of his lunacy;
https://www.chick.com/products/category?type=tracts
Specifically for D&D
https://www.chick.com/products/tract?stk=46&ue=d
Xocyll

I mean, it wasn't _only_ Jack Chick. The American 'Satanic Panic'
thing was fairly wide-spread even before D&D; believers pointed to
comic books, movies, rock'n'roll and all sorts of entertainment as
malefic influences on the youth. D&D was a sort of easy target because
one of its rulebooks featured a demonic idol on its cover. But of any
one person could be pointed to as the driving force for the 'D&D is a
tool of Satan", it's probably Patricia Pulling, nominal private
investigator, author of "The Devil's Web" and founder of BADD
('Bothered About Dungeons & Dragons', an anti-satanism campaign that
specifically targeted tabletop RPGs).
Chick was an end-times baptist nutjob who wrote a lot of corny and
logically-inconsistent morality plays in the form of comic strips
which reflected his very weird beliefs, of which 'Dark Dungeons' was
only one of many. As far as I can tell, it came out in the mid 80s,
some years after Pulling founded BADD and after the height of the
Satanic Panic frenzy.

I played the DMG backward on a turntable. It created a shredded paper
golem that immediately said, "Hail! Satan!"

There is some credence to what was said.

[JAB]

Post by Jhulian Waldby

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Zaghadka
All I know, and excuse me if I'm repeating this story for the 19th time,
is that my Irish Catholic grandmother bought me a first print 1e *Deities
& Demigods* for freaking Easter. I asked for it, and she was all "Yup."
So no, I don't think her priest was railing against Satan in D&D.

I'm pretty sure it was an American phoneme.

I guess the concern is that players may become unable to differentiate
the truth from the water elemental.  I've noticed this in some Dungeon
Masters who argue rules as if it were a physics laboratory.  Not one
hint of "this is fiction" or "we can't find a rule for that."
Funny though, I haven't heard anyone mention Satanism in D&D for yrs.
That all stopped a week before I picked up Basic Dungeons & Dragons.
Who were those people?  I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten.

I did read a 'discussion' in I think White Dwarf many, many years ago
about whether sharp weapons should do half damage on skeletons based on
whether they had an 'energy body' keeping everything together. My
thoughts were who cares either way as long as the game world is
internally consistent.

I play Call of Cthulhu and someone decided to rewrite the firearms
damage to reflect muzzle velocities and projectile weight. Was it more
realistic, yes but they had made it so that instead of combat just being
dangerous, and best avoided where possible, it was outright deadly and
one hit is time to roll a new character.

[Kyonshi]

Post by JAB

Post by Jhulian Waldby

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Zaghadka
All I know, and excuse me if I'm repeating this story for the 19th time,
is that my Irish Catholic grandmother bought me a first print 1e *Deities
& Demigods* for freaking Easter. I asked for it, and she was all "Yup."
So no, I don't think her priest was railing against Satan in D&D.

I'm pretty sure it was an American phoneme.

I guess the concern is that players may become unable to differentiate
the truth from the water elemental.  I've noticed this in some Dungeon
Masters who argue rules as if it were a physics laboratory.  Not one
hint of "this is fiction" or "we can't find a rule for that."
Funny though, I haven't heard anyone mention Satanism in D&D for yrs.
That all stopped a week before I picked up Basic Dungeons & Dragons.
Who were those people?  I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten.

I did read a 'discussion' in I think White Dwarf many, many years ago
about whether sharp weapons should do half damage on skeletons based on
whether they had an 'energy body' keeping everything together. My
thoughts were who cares either way as long as the game world is
internally consistent.
I play Call of Cthulhu and someone decided to rewrite the firearms
damage to reflect muzzle velocities and projectile weight. Was it more
realistic, yes but they had made it so that instead of combat just being
dangerous, and best avoided where possible, it was outright deadly and
one hit is time to roll a new character.

I don't want to yuck anyone's yum, if they think it's a good idea for
their game and their players like it...

On the other hand I also feel one-hit kills might be driving players off.

[Jhulian Waldby]

Post by Kyonshi

Post by JAB

Post by Jhulian Waldby

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Zaghadka
All I know, and excuse me if I'm repeating this story for the 19th time,
is that my Irish Catholic grandmother bought me a first print 1e *Deities
& Demigods* for freaking Easter. I asked for it, and she was all "Yup."
So no, I don't think her priest was railing against Satan in D&D.

I'm pretty sure it was an American phoneme.

I guess the concern is that players may become unable to
differentiate the truth from the water elemental.  I've noticed this
in some Dungeon Masters who argue rules as if it were a physics
laboratory.  Not one hint of "this is fiction" or "we can't find a
rule for that."
Funny though, I haven't heard anyone mention Satanism in D&D for yrs.
That all stopped a week before I picked up Basic Dungeons & Dragons.
Who were those people?  I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten.

I did read a 'discussion' in I think White Dwarf many, many years ago
about whether sharp weapons should do half damage on skeletons based
on whether they had an 'energy body' keeping everything together. My
thoughts were who cares either way as long as the game world is
internally consistent.
I play Call of Cthulhu and someone decided to rewrite the firearms
damage to reflect muzzle velocities and projectile weight. Was it more
realistic, yes but they had made it so that instead of combat just
being dangerous, and best avoided where possible, it was outright
deadly and one hit is time to roll a new character.

I don't want to yuck anyone's yum, if they think it's a good idea for
their game and their players like it...
On the other hand I also feel one-hit kills might be driving players off.

This might be kind of digressive, but one of the few times I tried my
hand at being DM, the party was fighting a colony of bats when one of
the guys asked, can't this go any faster? Is there a way to abbreviate
combat for players that don't like to focus on that aspect of the game?
I felt silly sitting there enjoying it while they were more story-focused.

[Spalls Hurgenson]

On Wed, 20 Nov 2024 13:29:33 -0600, Jhulian Waldby

Post by Jhulian Waldby

Post by Kyonshi

Post by JAB

Post by Jhulian Waldby

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Zaghadka
All I know, and excuse me if I'm repeating this story for the 19th time,
is that my Irish Catholic grandmother bought me a first print 1e *Deities
& Demigods* for freaking Easter. I asked for it, and she was all "Yup."
So no, I don't think her priest was railing against Satan in D&D.

I'm pretty sure it was an American phoneme.

I guess the concern is that players may become unable to
differentiate the truth from the water elemental.  I've noticed this
in some Dungeon Masters who argue rules as if it were a physics
laboratory.  Not one hint of "this is fiction" or "we can't find a
rule for that."
Funny though, I haven't heard anyone mention Satanism in D&D for yrs.
That all stopped a week before I picked up Basic Dungeons & Dragons.
Who were those people?  I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten.

I did read a 'discussion' in I think White Dwarf many, many years ago
about whether sharp weapons should do half damage on skeletons based
on whether they had an 'energy body' keeping everything together. My
thoughts were who cares either way as long as the game world is
internally consistent.
I play Call of Cthulhu and someone decided to rewrite the firearms
damage to reflect muzzle velocities and projectile weight. Was it more
realistic, yes but they had made it so that instead of combat just
being dangerous, and best avoided where possible, it was outright
deadly and one hit is time to roll a new character.

I don't want to yuck anyone's yum, if they think it's a good idea for
their game and their players like it...
On the other hand I also feel one-hit kills might be driving players off.

This might be kind of digressive, but one of the few times I tried my
hand at being DM, the party was fighting a colony of bats when one of
the guys asked, can't this go any faster? Is there a way to abbreviate
combat for players that don't like to focus on that aspect of the game?
I felt silly sitting there enjoying it while they were more story-focused.

I just had a flashback to facing off against a roomful of mongbats in
Ultima V....

[Sorry, had to drag the thread back on-topic
just a little bit. Force of habit.]

With tabletop roleplaying, finding a group who likes playing the game
the same way as you is probably the most important thing. Some people
love the mechanical aspects of it; min-maxing and rules-lawyering is
the fun part to them! Others want the power-fantasy; killing hordes of
monsters, getting amazing amounts of loot, and winning the hand of the
prince (or princess) at the end. And some like the drama of the game;
they like the role-playing.

[Me, I'm in it for the world-building]

None of them are wrong in how they are playing the game, but if you
put a min-maxer next to a power-fantasieer and play it with a
drama-nerd, none of them are going to have fun. You need to find a
group which matches your -and the GM's- personal style.

Sadly, most people are a mix of these archetypes, which makes finding
the perfect group even harder. But if you find one, never let them go.
;-)

But I'm sure there are some groups who love one-hit kill encounters.
More power to them. It's a perfectly legitimate way to play the game.
It's just not the _only_ way.

[Zaghadka]

On Wed, 20 Nov 2024 17:01:07 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
On Wed, 20 Nov 2024 13:29:33 -0600, Jhulian Waldby

Post by Jhulian Waldby

Post by Kyonshi

Post by JAB

Post by Jhulian Waldby

Post by Dimensional Traveler

Post by Zaghadka
All I know, and excuse me if I'm repeating this story for the 19th time,
is that my Irish Catholic grandmother bought me a first print 1e *Deities
& Demigods* for freaking Easter. I asked for it, and she was all "Yup."
So no, I don't think her priest was railing against Satan in D&D.

I'm pretty sure it was an American phoneme.

I guess the concern is that players may become unable to
differentiate the truth from the water elemental.  I've noticed this
in some Dungeon Masters who argue rules as if it were a physics
laboratory.  Not one hint of "this is fiction" or "we can't find a
rule for that."
Funny though, I haven't heard anyone mention Satanism in D&D for yrs.
That all stopped a week before I picked up Basic Dungeons & Dragons.
Who were those people?  I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten.

I did read a 'discussion' in I think White Dwarf many, many years ago
about whether sharp weapons should do half damage on skeletons based
on whether they had an 'energy body' keeping everything together. My
thoughts were who cares either way as long as the game world is
internally consistent.
I play Call of Cthulhu and someone decided to rewrite the firearms
damage to reflect muzzle velocities and projectile weight. Was it more
realistic, yes but they had made it so that instead of combat just
being dangerous, and best avoided where possible, it was outright
deadly and one hit is time to roll a new character.

I don't want to yuck anyone's yum, if they think it's a good idea for
their game and their players like it...
On the other hand I also feel one-hit kills might be driving players off.

This might be kind of digressive, but one of the few times I tried my
hand at being DM, the party was fighting a colony of bats when one of
the guys asked, can't this go any faster? Is there a way to abbreviate
combat for players that don't like to focus on that aspect of the game?
I felt silly sitting there enjoying it while they were more story-focused.

I just had a flashback to facing off against a roomful of mongbats in
Ultima V....

Oh yeah. That was a wtf TPW the first time I went to the underworld. I
laughed my ass off. Should have read that quest journal.

[Spalls Hurgenson]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 19:31:43 -0600, Jhulian Waldby

Post by Jhulian Waldby
I guess the concern is that players may become unable to differentiate
the truth from the water elemental. I've noticed this in some Dungeon
Masters who argue rules as if it were a physics laboratory. Not one
hint of "this is fiction" or "we can't find a rule for that."

Tabletop RPG afficiandos always point to 'rule zero: the DM has
ultimate say in what goes, overriding even what the books say.' But
few acknowledge that there is --or should be-- a rule -1: the goal of
the game is to have fun. And if you, as DM, are pissing off your
players, you've broken the most fundamental rule of the game. ;-)

Post by Jhulian Waldby
Funny though, I haven't heard anyone mention Satanism in D&D for yrs.
That all stopped a week before I picked up Basic Dungeons & Dragons.
Who were those people? I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten.

Almost entirely people who had not only never played the game, but had
never even read the books.

Usually small-minded hypocrites who themselves have such difficulty
discerning fantasy from reality that they need an authority (usually
religious in nature) to tell them the difference and can't imagine any
one else not being so restricted in their thinking.

Yes, these people existed, and they still exist; I had somebody
confront me on the game's supposed Satanic connections just a few
years ago. They're far less common (and, as mentioned, almost entirely
an American construct) but they're still around. And it's not just D&D
they have a hate for; Harry Potter, Twilight, tarot cards... it's all
burnable to them.

But it's America; what do you expect?

[Zaghadka]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2024 11:32:24 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
But it's America; what do you expect?

My expectations are always overestimated ...and I don't expect much.

[Xocyll]

Spalls Hurgenson <***@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 19:31:43 -0600, Jhulian Waldby

Post by Jhulian Waldby
I guess the concern is that players may become unable to differentiate
the truth from the water elemental. I've noticed this in some Dungeon
Masters who argue rules as if it were a physics laboratory. Not one
hint of "this is fiction" or "we can't find a rule for that."

Tabletop RPG afficiandos always point to 'rule zero: the DM has
ultimate say in what goes, overriding even what the books say.' But
few acknowledge that there is --or should be-- a rule -1: the goal of
the game is to have fun. And if you, as DM, are pissing off your
players, you've broken the most fundamental rule of the game. ;-)

Post by Jhulian Waldby
Funny though, I haven't heard anyone mention Satanism in D&D for yrs.
That all stopped a week before I picked up Basic Dungeons & Dragons.
Who were those people? I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten.

Almost entirely people who had not only never played the game, but had
never even read the books.
Usually small-minded hypocrites who themselves have such difficulty
discerning fantasy from reality that they need an authority (usually
religious in nature) to tell them the difference and can't imagine any
one else not being so restricted in their thinking.
Yes, these people existed, and they still exist; I had somebody
confront me on the game's supposed Satanic connections just a few
years ago. They're far less common (and, as mentioned, almost entirely
an American construct) but they're still around. And it's not just D&D
they have a hate for; Harry Potter, Twilight, tarot cards... it's all
burnable to them.
But it's America; what do you expect?

America, a nation founded by people who were kicked out of England for
being too uptight for the Puritans.

Xocyll

[Dimensional Traveler]

Post by Xocyll
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 19:31:43 -0600, Jhulian Waldby

Post by Jhulian Waldby
I guess the concern is that players may become unable to differentiate
the truth from the water elemental. I've noticed this in some Dungeon
Masters who argue rules as if it were a physics laboratory. Not one
hint of "this is fiction" or "we can't find a rule for that."

Tabletop RPG afficiandos always point to 'rule zero: the DM has
ultimate say in what goes, overriding even what the books say.' But
few acknowledge that there is --or should be-- a rule -1: the goal of
the game is to have fun. And if you, as DM, are pissing off your
players, you've broken the most fundamental rule of the game. ;-)

Post by Jhulian Waldby
Funny though, I haven't heard anyone mention Satanism in D&D for yrs.
That all stopped a week before I picked up Basic Dungeons & Dragons.
Who were those people? I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten.

Almost entirely people who had not only never played the game, but had
never even read the books.
Usually small-minded hypocrites who themselves have such difficulty
discerning fantasy from reality that they need an authority (usually
religious in nature) to tell them the difference and can't imagine any
one else not being so restricted in their thinking.
Yes, these people existed, and they still exist; I had somebody
confront me on the game's supposed Satanic connections just a few
years ago. They're far less common (and, as mentioned, almost entirely
an American construct) but they're still around. And it's not just D&D
they have a hate for; Harry Potter, Twilight, tarot cards... it's all
burnable to them.
But it's America; what do you expect?

America, a nation founded by people who were kicked out of England for
being too uptight for the Puritans.

*DING* *DING* *DING* *DING* *DING* *DING* *DING*
We have a winner!

[Kyonshi]

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 19:31:43 -0600, Jhulian Waldby

Post by Jhulian Waldby
I guess the concern is that players may become unable to differentiate
the truth from the water elemental. I've noticed this in some Dungeon
Masters who argue rules as if it were a physics laboratory. Not one
hint of "this is fiction" or "we can't find a rule for that."

Tabletop RPG afficiandos always point to 'rule zero: the DM has
ultimate say in what goes, overriding even what the books say.' But
few acknowledge that there is --or should be-- a rule -1: the goal of
the game is to have fun. And if you, as DM, are pissing off your
players, you've broken the most fundamental rule of the game. ;-)

Post by Jhulian Waldby
Funny though, I haven't heard anyone mention Satanism in D&D for yrs.
That all stopped a week before I picked up Basic Dungeons & Dragons.
Who were those people? I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten.

Almost entirely people who had not only never played the game, but had
never even read the books.
Usually small-minded hypocrites who themselves have such difficulty
discerning fantasy from reality that they need an authority (usually
religious in nature) to tell them the difference and can't imagine any
one else not being so restricted in their thinking.
Yes, these people existed, and they still exist; I had somebody
confront me on the game's supposed Satanic connections just a few
years ago. They're far less common (and, as mentioned, almost entirely
an American construct) but they're still around. And it's not just D&D
they have a hate for; Harry Potter, Twilight, tarot cards... it's all
burnable to them.

Ah, Harry Potter recently has gotten into their good graces as JKR
decided to come out hard against trans women. All of a sudden the
previous arguments against HP were forgotten and witchcraft now is A-OK.

[Spalls Hurgenson]

Post by Kyonshi
Ah, Harry Potter recently has gotten into their good graces as JKR
decided to come out hard against trans women. All of a sudden the
previous arguments against HP were forgotten and witchcraft now is A-OK.

You'll have to tell that then to people like Greg Locke (a Tennesee
Pastor) who is still calling for the Harry Potter books to be burnt.
He was doing so long after Rowling's anti-trans views were known.

There's probably more people in the US who still believe in the
'Satanic Panic' than use of Usenet worldwide. There's a lot of very
backwards people there.

(the US, that is, and not Usenet. Although maybe Usenet too ;-)

[candycanearter07]

Post by Spalls Hurgenson

Post by Kyonshi
Ah, Harry Potter recently has gotten into their good graces as JKR
decided to come out hard against trans women. All of a sudden the
previous arguments against HP were forgotten and witchcraft now is A-OK.

You'll have to tell that then to people like Greg Locke (a Tennesee
Pastor) who is still calling for the Harry Potter books to be burnt.
He was doing so long after Rowling's anti-trans views were known.
There's probably more people in the US who still believe in the
'Satanic Panic' than use of Usenet worldwide. There's a lot of very
backwards people there.
(the US, that is, and not Usenet. Although maybe Usenet too ;-)

USENET is pretty obscure, so I'd bet you're right.

[Jhulian Waldby]

Post by Kyonshi

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 19:31:43 -0600, Jhulian Waldby

Post by Jhulian Waldby
I guess the concern is that players may become unable to differentiate
the truth from the water elemental.  I've noticed this in some Dungeon
Masters who argue rules as if it were a physics laboratory.  Not one
hint of "this is fiction" or "we can't find a rule for that."

Tabletop RPG afficiandos always point to 'rule zero: the DM has
ultimate say in what goes, overriding even what the books say.' But
few acknowledge that there is --or should be-- a rule -1: the goal of
the game is to have fun. And if you, as DM, are pissing off your
players, you've broken the most fundamental rule of the game. ;-)

Post by Jhulian Waldby
Funny though, I haven't heard anyone mention Satanism in D&D for yrs.
That all stopped a week before I picked up Basic Dungeons & Dragons.
Who were those people?  I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten.

Almost entirely people who had not only never played the game, but had
never even read the books.
Usually small-minded hypocrites who themselves have such difficulty
discerning fantasy from reality that they need an authority (usually
religious in nature) to tell them the difference and can't imagine any
one else not being so restricted in their thinking.
Yes, these people existed, and they still exist; I had somebody
confront me on the game's supposed Satanic connections just a few
years ago. They're far less common (and, as mentioned, almost entirely
an American construct) but they're still around. And it's not just D&D
they have a hate for; Harry Potter, Twilight, tarot cards... it's all
burnable to them.

Ah, Harry Potter recently has gotten into their good graces as JKR
decided to come out hard against trans women. All of a sudden the
previous arguments against HP were forgotten and witchcraft now is A-OK.

Oh I don't think they would allow witchcraft. The worst Harry Potter
does is Devil summoning.

[Zaghadka]

On Wed, 20 Nov 2024 18:11:40 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,

Post by Kyonshi

Post by Spalls Hurgenson
On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 19:31:43 -0600, Jhulian Waldby

Post by Jhulian Waldby
I guess the concern is that players may become unable to differentiate
the truth from the water elemental. I've noticed this in some Dungeon
Masters who argue rules as if it were a physics laboratory. Not one
hint of "this is fiction" or "we can't find a rule for that."

Tabletop RPG afficiandos always point to 'rule zero: the DM has
ultimate say in what goes, overriding even what the books say.' But
few acknowledge that there is --or should be-- a rule -1: the goal of
the game is to have fun. And if you, as DM, are pissing off your
players, you've broken the most fundamental rule of the game. ;-)

Post by Jhulian Waldby
Funny though, I haven't heard anyone mention Satanism in D&D for yrs.
That all stopped a week before I picked up Basic Dungeons & Dragons.
Who were those people? I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten.

Almost entirely people who had not only never played the game, but had
never even read the books.
Usually small-minded hypocrites who themselves have such difficulty
discerning fantasy from reality that they need an authority (usually
religious in nature) to tell them the difference and can't imagine any
one else not being so restricted in their thinking.
Yes, these people existed, and they still exist; I had somebody
confront me on the game's supposed Satanic connections just a few
years ago. They're far less common (and, as mentioned, almost entirely
an American construct) but they're still around. And it's not just D&D
they have a hate for; Harry Potter, Twilight, tarot cards... it's all
burnable to them.

Ah, Harry Potter recently has gotten into their good graces as JKR
decided to come out hard against trans women. All of a sudden the
previous arguments against HP were forgotten and witchcraft now is A-OK.

Yeah, sure. Maybe check what she actually said?

cf: The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling podcast. "Choke on my trans cock"
may have been said to her at some point.

She actually tried to start a discussion, raised some valid feminist
concerns, and got death and rape threats in return. At one point, she
made the mistake of retweeting someone who _is_ hard-core anti-trans,
probably in ignorance, as a twitchy response to all the threats. That is
the main source of the accusation. It is also understandable.

Too many people want to shut down discussion entirely, generally with
threats of violence. Me and a whole bunch of queer people (myself queer
included) had a reasonable discussion about it on a summer vacation. We
had reasonable differences on the matter and did not agree. Do not
believe the Internet. The LGBT community is diverse and thoughtful.

I don't want to have a debate here. I just want to indicate that what you
say is a common opinion, not fact. The Christian right still thinks she's
a witch. Basically, nobody in any particular "tribe" likes J.K., and I
think she's fine with that, because she's been horribly abused before and
is very resilient.

[Ross Ridge]

Post by Justisaur
I don't know that it was Catholics going after D&D. BADD was
popularized by evangelicals - specifically the TV kind. Jack Chick was
was some very weird offshoot of Baptist.

While I agree the loudest voices in the Satanic panic were funamentalist
Protestants, it was more a cultural thing than a religious one.
Even atheists would have been caught up in the panic. You didn't need to
believe in Satan to believe that there actually were Satanic cults running
around molesting children, and that D&D could be a gateway to that.

But as a cultural thing it didn't really spread far in the non-English
speaking world. So while there would have been plenty of American
Catholics concerned about people playing D&D, I doubt there would've
been anyone in the Vatican who would've admonished some young curate or
Swiss Guard member for playing D&D or a video game based on it.

[Jhulian Waldby]

Post by Ross Ridge
But as a cultural thing it didn't really spread far in the non-English
speaking world. So while there would have been plenty of American
Catholics concerned about people playing D&D, I doubt there would've
been anyone in the Vatican who would've admonished some young curate or
Swiss Guard member for playing D&D or a video game based on it.

Setting aside the concept of whether or not there actually is Satanism
present, the reason is that at its roots its a dice game. Every
red-blooded American loves Monopoly and some even love Yahtzee more. My
point is that different cultures around the world play their games on
different media, be it cards, dice, darts or board games. We play poker
on Thursdays and when it's your deal you can pick the poker format. You
can advance 7 card stud, Texas Hold Em, or even five card, three draw.
However, don't try to say, "I'm going to deal Yahtzee." Everybody will
throw up on their hands (drinks are encouraged), lick it, and
exasperatedly, and exasperatingly, say, "I came to play poker." The
same goes for trying to teach a young Uzbekistanian to enjoy the bones.
He will say, "I came to shake my Maracas."